During this meeting we talked about what we expect from Tunis, discussed how and when we are going to have our future online meetings, and more…
- Meetings start half an hour before in order to prepare all technical problems and points of the meeting including facilitation, minutes and presentations
- The day of the week for the next meeting will be decided online through a poll and there will be meetings every two weeks
- Next meeting will start with the activities proposed till now and new ones which is the point of the agenda we skipped in this meeting: http://titanpad.com/agora99firezneWSFactivities
- In the mean time groups will work through the web site and pads
We have 6 working groups at the moment
- Infrostructure: Orsan, Tina, Rami, Jeza, Marouane, Nori, Paul, Dani
- Finance: Sureshf, Daniel, John
- Statement: Jasper, Jeza, John, Sureshf
- Communication: Vica, Orsan, Dani, Mariangela
- Administrator website: Jasper, Mariangela, ..
- Extended forum
Working group have to be made by people from different countries and people from Tunis. Aim is working together. People could start new working group online on the website.
Recordings of the meeting can be downloaded from:
- First 2 hours http://www.mediafire.com/?yw0bccc6425cwf6
- Second 2 hours http://www.mediafire.com/?u32r1oqyyb836yk
- Sureshf, from Vancouver Canada
- Mariangela, participant in 15M, Madrid
- Marisa, OWS and Strike Debt, NYC
- Andrea, InterOccupy (NYC)
- Jasper, the Netherlands
- Daniel, participant 15M Barcelona
- John, participant in Occupy London
- Vica involved in Occupy London
- Carolina from Madrid living in Berlin
- Isra, Mexico Global132 international assembly
- Orsan, living in Netherland
- Piran, living in Berlin, Germany
- Ternura, from Asturia 15M
- Nicco, Occupy Sweden from the city of Gothenburg.
- Carminda, Montréal Québec, VIA22, email@example.com
- Pierre, France
- Rami from Tunis
- PresenceCounts-15o-OccupyLjubljana from Slovenia movements
- Jeza: from Barcelona 15M,
- Facilitation: Jasper
- Turns: Orsan, Vica
- Minutes: Mariangela John and all
- Recording: Ternura
Consensus that meetings start half an hour before in order to prepare or the technical points of the meeting including facilitation, minutes and technical problems and presentations
0. Deciding the points of the agenda and the order
Consensuated the following agenda:
- Short summary about this process
- Reports from the groups formed in the previous meeting
- What do we want/expect from tunis?
- Next meetings
1. Short summary about this process
Orsan making a short summary about what this group has done till now: the participation in the meeting in Milan Firenze 10+10 participatory meetig and Agora99, Florence, the decision of organizing an assembly in florence networking with different actors, and now organizing towards Tunis. Created a mailing list and having online meeting in mumble since the end of november
Notes from previous meetings:
- 30 November 2012: http://titanpad.com/agora99firezneWSF
- 7 December 2012: http://titanpad.com/agora99firezneWSF2
- 18 December 2012: http://titanpad.com/agora99firezneWSF3
- 3 January 2013: http://titanpad.com/agora99firenzeWSF4
- 17 January 2013: http://titanpad.com/globalsquare5
Jasper: introduction about https://www.global-square.net/ All the details are at this link. It is possible to start groups in it, there is the option of working in the web. It’s not finished yet. In the menu there is an item called collaborate and you could start groups in the web. You could join in and start a group.
Vica: finds the mailing list too heavy and it will be better to work in the web.
Other things could be added, please ask if you feel the need. There are many ways to help with the website like sending fotos, videos which could be interesting. The contents are collectivly worked by all of us. The translation is made automatically in the web site. It is possible to add new languages. One last thing. There is different ways to make the translations. Translation software is expensive. You can all start helping with translations which is v. important
3. Reports from the groups formed in the previous meeting
Infrastructure group: Orsan,Tina, Rami, Jeza, Marouane, Nori and Paul, Dani
Dani: Not much done. People are not answering to the questions. We need to think seriously about what we need, and how we can source them. We need to be able to connect with the local groups to know these things.
Translation between arab and english will be an important issue. We cannot expect Babel to translate for free. I think we need at least 50 people for this.
Orsan: i agree and desagree. I volunteer to communicate with Babel in genreal we can link to them and collabora for alonger term. There were already positive answers from comrades from babels. We can work on the website and continue to discuss. I suggest to carry on as a group in the web site. All d. questions are right.
Carminda: Nori propose to communicate in a different way and working in the web is a good opportunity
Finance: Sureshf, Daniel, John
Orsan: I was not in this group but I did something to look for money. It didnt work and this is the information
Dani: About finace there were people who said that we dont need money.
Asking the organization of the forum free admission and other calls. We dont know how much money we need. We are in a very early stage
V. could understand the frustration but there are different point of view between us. We are not able to discuss about infrostructure if we didnt decide what we want to do. Better to start from what we can do and on our strengh
Comunication: Vica, Orsan, Dani, Mariangela (working nationally and internationally) we work on the web till now. We got to work on the next couple of weeks
Statement: the group about the statement didn’t work.
4. What do we want/expect from tunis?
Ma: We need to take in accout the tunisian reality, and work with tunisians, in order to know what we can do there more concretely.
Sureshf: it is important to see what kind of support we have there
O: New people are coming with different energy and this is normal for an open process.
Rami: my main point is what is the aim of this group? Do we want to make a change in the WSF? Do we want to be near the population of Tunisia? It’s not clear. The main problem here is that the groups organizing the WSF in Tunisia are not really representatives of the movements. The revolution in Tunisia was made by the people in the centre of Tunisia not the ones in Tunis. The groups in charge of the WSF not represent the spirit of the revolution. The revolution was horizontal. In Tunis this organizations have leaders. there are some group who are making open assemblies. I am really close to this group. We have a lot of work here and people are not used to use Mumble and I can give direct contacts.
I need precide tasks and I will check for materials and people
What could the horizontal groups offer?
There are really bad things happening now in tunisia & from the WSF organisation..
Suresh: it will be nice to have an open space. We have a hard dead line. We have to think about really simple proposals. We want to get people no hierarchic with no leaders. Priority is to create a space where people of the new movements could represent themselves from all over the world
Andrea. agree with Suresh. There was a confusion about this group being inside the organization of the forum. We made a proposal about comunication and democracy. I dont know how the WSF works. We are coming to Tunis ( 4 from interoccupy) iof this group wants to collaborate
Vica. thank to Rami for the feedback. A lot is about coming together and learn from each other. that will be already a good task for us. Interested in skill sharing workshops. What we did in Florence was an open assembly and also we had the idea that we wanted to communicate to the people in the forum. The assembly was complitly indipendent and this is the sort of the attitude we have now.
Orsan: there are very different networks and it will be important to come together and exchange whats going on. We have to start to work on it practically. We will make an impact anyway.
Marisa: I think we can be both confrontational to old movements and open up space for new movements. also, perhaps there is also an opportunity, like in florence, to open space for local participation in the assembly methodology. this is very important, i think. we should find people we have affinity with in tunis. also… andrea— we should talk in more detail with folks in ny. there are a lot of conversations happening. on the world social forum org front— there is a meeting at the end of this month in brazil that some ows folks will be attending. my sense is that chico whittaker and some of the other orig world social forum organizers are very interested in what happened in agora 99, in florence, and what we’re doing now. they want to learn from what we’re doing.
PresenceCounts: interested in WSF in Tunis as we were in Florence and in Agora 99
PresenceCounts: Unfortunatelly there was no interest by organizators of Florence 10+10 to cover our expences to come to Florence. We are active in global movements from september 2011 and we are dealing hard with all expences, which cover from our private pocket. But we will trying to work as much as possible and colaborate in future, especially with our colegues abroad. According to WSF: There is always same problems around the globe also in WSF, how to obtain OPEN SPACE and thinking OUT of the BOX. It will be simmilar as was in Florence 10+10. Old structures are tight with this and not prepared to implement new ways of working and especialy thinking. So this is our first goal to work on it, to open and also keep OPEN SPACE opened.
Jasper: There will be a youth camp in Tunis and a migrants without papers caravan going to Tunis. Let’s ee if and how we can work together, make connections
Mariangela: this is a very old confrontation between verticals and horizontals in the forum. My expierience as an horizontal is to organize an alternative open space where we can meet, exchange with other new movements and learn for each other and share our methodology
Rami: here there are different point of views. The people in organization dont really understand. We could do anything we want: be out, or in or both. Convergence could be made. How many of you are coming? It is possible to ask for money from the ESF in order to participate. Making an open assembly in Tunis you have to know. Most of the people in tunis doesn’t have any political education. There is no opposition right now. Open assembly is to show to tunissian people a new way to organize. Aglutination process: all the activities will be in connection of each other will be connected. We will ask to work together. Maybe we could use this to have an open assembly. the problem will be the money. If we are 50 people outside we dont change anything. We have to use the internal process in order to get infrastructure. Any of us has to subscribe activities. I want to network, keep in touch to develop new software
leader of WSf have no right to ignore us
John: agree with what Rami said. Interested in the teachers strike in Tunis. Tunisia is in a part of world where many things are happening like the war in Mali. Being not to ambitious. Building bridges from below. WSf is not what our movements could do. I would like to have participation with the people who made the revolution and those who are active in the resistance today. The WSF type meetings are conventional lecture format and they do not consider that the audience as active participants. This is not our style
Orsan: important to bring as much people is possible and organize ouside the forum in the main square of Tunis
Carminda: What is important is that we focus in what is happening out of the forum, a space which could involve people from inside and ouside the forum. We need to be humble in the process. We can’t really plan what will exactly happen, but to try to encourage the creation of spaces where things will happen. And to explicitely focus on what will happen after the WSF. As in many local and global actions after big events we loose contact and don’t really reflect back. What we are doing is important.
Jeza: first: to be inside and outside. My main aim is Contacting individuals and groups on fight from everywhere, specially from places that now seem far away, as tunissians. Thay is why my intention is to arrive some days before (Around sunday). As well, exchange experience to learn and exchange the strategy of the groups we belong to in order to find a way to interact and a common main lines to work for a future strategy. Start a long term work. I am a bit concerned about this going too naif and not many people attending
second: What to do inside. Do we have to register something precise or we can talk about an open space coming from the aglutination process Rami was talking about with dead line the starting time? So, we can choose where can we be depending on our interests
Camp: If somebody is planning to build a camp, let’s ask them… of course
List of tasks: I feel like giving orders to someone. Rami, can we gather more local people to work with us, not only providing what we need, but to build this participation together
Jasper: reminds about the statement
Sureshf: important points from Rami: engaging with the international council and use the money
Nori would like to communicate with the people in Tunis to find solutions.
Mariangela: reminds what happened in Florence. We proposed an open assembly and at the end the “official” forum decided to organize one which was like a passerella for the activities inside. That’s why we decided to have ours absolutly outside the forum and it was a good expieirence
Vica: if there are people who want to do things inside it is possible for them to do it. People who want to subscribe activities could do it
Orsan: new movements are not organically connected with the official process. At the moment we have direct communication and use these channels. We need resorses.
Jeza: When I am talking about open space I mean a space where people could talk about whatever they want to talk. I was proposing a methodology.
Marisa: the most important thing is that we decide what we (the movement of squares) want. i think we should communicate with IC but be clear that we will be horizontal and participatory. if they want to help, then great, but we should not change what we are doing to fit their agendas.
PresenceCounts: OPEN SPACE can only exist as long as it is the people we meet as individuals and as people also speak on own behalf, not on behalf of some social structures or organizations.
The basic purpose of activities is in the opening of these spaces, which are always confronted with attempts to close, conquests. These common areas must always be open, always available to everyone to enter it freely and unguided talk about their everyday dilemmas, life stories, suggestions, solutions, and it connects with other people and in this way helps create community.
Vica: we have a dead line. so carry on with the assemblies we proposed
Fausto: it’s not a good idea to participate in the forum and being frustrating
Nori saying that if people agrees with doing things outside contact her
Mariangela: there is no dead line. We have already presented the assemblies and we have time to change them till march so let’s talk about this in the next meeting with all the activities proposed till now
5. Next meetings
Remember that we will meet half an hour before each meeting for the pratical and methodologic decisions
Daniel proposal to meet in two weeks and approximately every two weeks so we would have six meetings via Mumble:
17/01, 31/01, 14/02, 28/02, 14/03, 21/03.
The WSF is between 26 and 30th of March.
If we try to concentrate our activities on the last 3 days (Thu28th, Fri29th, Sat30th) and we arrive the day before the start of the Forum (the Mon25th, i arrive the Sun24th), we could have days Mon25th, Tue26th and Wed27th for preparation on site meetings.
So a total of maybe 9 meetings (6 virtual, 3 physical).
There will be a doodle to decide on the dates and the days of the weeks so all the people could participate
- Monday 28 +1 +1-1+1-1
- Tuesday 29 +1 -1+1+1-1
- Wednesday 30 -1-1-1
- Thursday 31-1 +1-1
- Friday 1 +1+1+1+1
- Saturday 2 +1+1+1
- Sunday 3 +1 +1+1+1
Carminda: working in small group is very good thing.
Mariangela proposed to work in working group for half meeting and the other hour we work all together
Jasper propose the contrary: starting all together and then divide (edit: and come back together at the end of course!)
Vica: maybe we need a facilitating group
We will work in pads and through the web and we see what happens in the next meeting
6. Extended forum
There will be a group willing to do extended activities in barcelona organized by the forum of barcelona and they thought to connect with our assemblies
-info how to make local activities visible anywhere in the world : www.fsm2013.org/en/node/2604
-steps to enlarge ( on internet ) activities taking place anywhere in the world (and in tunis) : www.fsm2013.org/en/node/4077
========== Not discussed============
7. summary proposals till now + new ones
8. calls to other activities
there is an antiwar antioccupation meetings on the 20th of january at 19 CET time (comunicated inthe pad)
9. collaborating with interoccupy and US
10. translation and languages